How Ebay profits from software piracy
Recently I was looking for a newer version of WinDVD for my PC. Of course I know that I could take a quick trip to the seedy side of the internet and get a free version or a crack for the trial version that would probably not contain too nasty of a virus or trojan. But I decided long ago that as a matter of principle that I would only run properly licensed software on my PC. But that does not mean that I was instantly going to pay $70 to InterVideo for the download version of WinDVD Platinum 7. So I started to look around. I downloaded a trial version of WinDVD 5 Platinum, and decided that 5 had everything I wanted. So I looked on Amazon, and checked Pricegrabber. There were older versions offered for less, but everything was over $30, so I kept looking. And I turned to Ebay.
I have been occasionally buying and selling things on Ebay for 6 years, and with a few exceptions, it has always worked the way it is supposed to. People are usually honest, and things get worked out. So I feel comfortable with the whole process. Well, I found a number of copies of WinDVD for sale, from the first version up to the latest version 7. Some are new in the retail box, others are OEM (sold with the required “untested piece of hardware” so that they meet the legal requirements). After looking through the listings, one price is by far the lowest: WinDVD 7 for $8 (total including shipping). That is really low. I checked the seller’s feedback: 6 months on Ebay, 130 ratings, with 100% positive. “What do I have to lose?” I think. “At that price, even if I get ripped off, it won’t be much of a loss.” I carefully read the listing, to make sure that I haven’t missed anything. Everything in the listing indicates that this is a regular version of WinDVD 7. The seller has 20 for sale. Ebay makes a lot of noise about how they strictly prohibit software piracy. So I buy it, and pay with PayPal.
A few days later, the disc arrives. It is a burned CD-R, with an inkjet label (a scan of the regular disc top). Taped to the CD sleeve is a somewhat blurry color photocopy of the serial number. I’m not about to load this on my PC. It seems that the price was too good to be true. Time to see how the system works. I email the seller.
“Dude, this is a burned CD-R. What’s up with that?”
I get a response (copied verbatim with errors): “Dude does it work??? u got a nice item for a decent price right???”
As in, who cares if it is illegal, if it works, it shouldn’t matter. And apparently over 100 Ebay members agree, and have given this seller positive feedback, including over 10 who bought exactly the same thing. The next response is:
“so what do u want for me to do???? i bought them as a bundle and now selling them here on ebay, it works great though right because i use it on my computer, nice piece….open for suggestions..”
So I reply: “Well, first Ebay prohibits selling burned CD-R’s, so that is probably why it wasn’t mentioned anywhere in the listing. OEM versions unbundled from their hardware are also prohibited. Now if I wanted a pirated version of WinDVD 7, I would just download one or get the crack. Instead I made a decision to only run properly purchased software on my system, which is the reason I paid for it. Since I didn’t get what I was lead to expect, I’d like a full refund. I’ll mail your CD-R back to you if you want it.”
To which the seller replies: “sure send it back and ill refund your money, even after you downloaded it?? how do I have proof that u didn’t do this already, what else did u expect for 99 cents, and as far as the crack I bought that here on ebay and it only lasted 2 weeks when I need to re-install it it didn’t work but with the disc u have it will always work, that’s why in my auctions I ask people to ask me any questions b4 they buy, and ill answer any questions for them. and u did get a properly paid for item I don’t understand…..????”
Notice how the mind of a criminal works. Here is someone who is making money scamming people on Ebay, and he is concerned that someone might take advantage of him. The irony is immense. Notice also that after I said that I refused to download it illegally, I am now accused of illegally downloading it.
My response is perhaps a little more annoyed than it should have been: “I haven’t downloaded it, although I could. I could be ripping you off, but I’m not. You are ripping me off, running an illegal business on Ebay, and then getting upset when your customers object to the deception. Your auction did not state OEM, and did not state burned CD-R. You did not deliver what you listed, and it is not my responsibility to ask you if you are breaking any rules or misrepresenting your item before I bid.”
To which our scammer responds: “just for refernec when I do get this back im not going to full refund you due to the fact postage+envelope+finalfees+paypal fees, because ill be damned if u think ill be paying all of these fees after u installed everything already.”
Greed, plus lack of logic and listening skills (to say nothing of grammar) have created a strange situation in his mind. He is being scammed by a customer who wants something for nothing (projection?). Just for example, I never said that I installed it, but he is now sure that that is what I have done. I, of course, am convinced that I am in the right. So I file a PayPal complaint: Item significantly not as described.
The seller emails me privately: “fine have it your way get nothing back!!! not a problem with me,, thanx again.” And a few minutes later through Ebay says: ” i dont have a problem taking the disc back, but u really think i should pay all assiocited fees thus far u not asking me any questions b4 purchase, and even though the auction says no returns and as-is as well….”
At this point I am still sure that the system works, and that Ebay cares about preventing software piracy. In the long run, it turns out that our scammer actually knows Ebay far better than I do. Privately he emails me to say: “no where does it says it’s a legit version, keep that in mind but it does say as-is!!!!!”. On Ebay he states, “u really think its fair u didn’t read the as-is auction, and then expect for me to pay all fees because of your mistake, please send me the disc back if it really bother you so much but im still deducting all fees I paid for, u decide, and I’ve delt with people like u b4 and ince we tried to work things out they still reported, me so how do I have your word, even after u probably still installed this software..what will bring your ease down???” Somehow it is all my fault that I didn’t presume the software they were selling on Ebay was actually illegal, and didn’t confirm in advance that the listing was really for what it said it was for. The sad thing is that, in the long run, Ebay would take his side!
After I file my complaint, Paypal states that they will make a thorough investigation, and will let me know the outcome in 30 days. A few days later my scammer tries to manipulate his feedback, asking: “To show u how much of a woman i am just lets try this leave me feedback, 1st, then send me the disc, and once disc is recieved ill reund u 7.00 bucks???? and of cousre once u leave me feedback ill do the same for you, no questions asked, but b4 all u much cancel the paypal quirrel??? hows that??? respond b4 4pm today if not ill be gone till monday thanx..”
I ignore it.
30 days pass, and then I get a real surprise, an Email from PayPal. The message is simple:
“Based on PayPal’s definition of significantly not-as-described, this claim does not qualify for a refund. We found the seller to have accurately represented the item(s) in question.”
The determination is final. There are no appeals. Ebay/Paypal approves of the sale, and will do nothing to sanction the seller.
And boom – there it is! Ebay and PayPal really don’t care about software piracy. They encourage it. After all, they profit from it. I’ve been keeping tabs on my scammer, meanwhile. In the last month he’s sold close to 100 copies of WinDVD 7 Gold for $8 each. And he has also sold about 30 copies of WinDVD 7 Platinum for $25 each. Ebay has made between $2 and $3 on each transaction. No wonder they have no interest in stopping it. Total to scammer: about $1300 after expenses. Total to Ebay: about $300. His feedback has dropped to 98%, but he switched his feedback to private. This means that his buyers can’t read why people rate him negatively – the actual comments that would tell a potential buyer that others have received pirated goods are hidden. Another way Ebay facilitates pirates. Multiply that by hundreds of such scammers, and you have some serious profits. The only party that really suffers is InterVideo. You think they would care, but they have not responded to my emails. And you can still buy an illegal copy of WinDVD 7 for $8 on Ebay.
PS: In case anyone is wondering, I ended up buying a boxed retail version of WinDVD 5 Platinum for about $22 from a surplus store in England. It arrived in 5 days by airmail.